Curse

Loviatar · Dec 13, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I do not believe for a second that the desert will have an npc to change you secondary to assassin. I could be wrong, I have been before. But the more likely thing is a different outpost, in a different zone. Nor do I think that the skill trainer in ember light camp will provide all the assassin skills, or even all the new skills for the current professions. .

correct.

as stated officially there will be points of mingling between chapter 1 and 2. how much is still not decided

you will not see your first chapter 2 skill/item/upgrade/etc until you are in and playing chapter 2.

to think that any level person could be run to ELC and load up on chapter 2 skills is amusing but..........

Sniper22 · Dec 13, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Actually I was never complaining about not having a free pvp slot :P. But still if u wanna PvP with one of the new professions you can get your 7 skills and one elite with 10k faction. 10k can also give u a good amount of weapon mods and stuff, u dont need 50k faction to start chapter 2 with.

Phades · Dec 14, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

In fact, many of them did play for *gasp* fun. Experience was the side effect. In either case, how is it abuse? It took effort to get that experience, more than I can say about faction. Not to mention that the skills trainers for PvE will take work to get to, unlike the faction skill trainers who are handed to you without any thought on your part.

Right, you believe in the tooth fairy too i suppose. Any character that loaded with exp wasnt doing so just because watching the numbers increase is fun. There was a time when the character existed when everything might have been new and fun, but after amassing the quantities we are both refering to is well beyond that point multiplied by whatever factor you deem is appropriate. Exp gained through pve doesn't take effort, it merely takes time. In all of pvp there are no players that use exactly the same builds in the same way and waiting in the exact same positions every single time. There is the very real possibility that you did not bring the right skill to win or they had a build that countered your team's build well. PvE is more of a given situation as the AI is very predictable. In both cases you tend to bring the best possible build to the table, but that ideal build does not work in every situation. This happens more frequently in pvp than pve. I say that it is abusable in either instance, because the trainers are available to the pvp characters in the pvp areas, just like the pve trainers are easily accessable to an experienced pve player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

You are being sarcastic right? Chapter two is supposed to have close to the same amount of content as chapter one. Show me someone who can clear all 30-40 missions of chapter one in 3 hours, and I will be impressed. Show me someone who can do that when they have never done any of the missions before, and do not know where they are located, and I will be amazed.

It doesn't take much for a level 20 character to run through the ascalon, shiverpeak and kryta missions solo. It takes even less for an experienced team of level 20 characters to perform the same feat. You are assuming alot to think that chapter 2 will be level 20 specific content only, similar to the sorrow's furnace expansion. You are assuming even more that the only way to aquire those skills will only occur through the mission system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I do not believe for a second that the desert will have an npc to change you secondary to assassin. I could be wrong, I have been before. But the more likely thing is a different outpost, in a different zone. Nor do I think that the skill trainer in ember light camp will provide all the assassin skills, or even all the new skills for the current professions.

In the most sincere way possible hope that those things do not come to pass. If they do, it just opens the door for even faster progression for a ready and waiting pve character to exploit the new chapter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

With the current system, you will unlock things faster by going into competition arenas then you would by trying to fight your way through the entire content of chapter two.

Sure, if you never lose and no one ever drops and the faction rewards increase exponentially. It is way faster to go through the pve game and suck up all the normal skills with a pve character than it is to unlock each of them individually at 1k faction each. The elietes are a slightly different story though, due to some of the locations involved. I should know, because the only reason i have as much faction as i do spent, is because i never bothered to play a ranger through pve normally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I doubt that you avoided tombs until you had every skill unlocked in chapter one.

I think you would be surprised at how many people did not run a particular class combination till they had absorbed many, if not all of the skills by rushing through pve. The premade pvp templates leave something to be desired in most cases.

Undivine · Dec 14, 2005, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Every time you make a new PvE character, you have to aquire your skills and experience all over again. Every time you make a PvP character, your faction, and all the things you unlocked, are still available to you.

Faction can unlock all the best weapons and upgrades. You can get any rune, even the Rune of Superior Vigor or Absorption, far out of reach of most PvE characters.

I think you have a very skewed notion of how "easy" it is to aquire all the skills in the game in PvE. Not to mention that that is just for the one character. If you want a different primary, you start again.

I ask you, if you want to build up enough faction to unlock everything at the start of chapter 2, then why even bother with faciton at all? Perhaps ANet should just remove faction entirely and give PvPers everything right at the start anyway. No progression, just flat-out perfection.

I believe the original purpose of the proposal to remove the faction cap was to give you that sense of reward for winning in PvP. Well just face the facts: You've finished the game! You've unlocked everything in the game and now all you really need is new content. You're just so syked for Chapter 2 that you want it now. Tough ****! The game isn't out yet. Wait, and you can then start earning your Chapter 2 goodies.

Don't give me that crap that PvEers get all this free stuff at the start of Chapter 2, because that's just not the case. Playing through the campagns for the first time takes effort (and luck, in the case of PUGs). Even if it were that easy, people want to be Assassins, not Warrior/Assassins.

jibikao · Dec 14, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

I don't understand why they can't increase the faction cap. I've reached 10,000 so many times without realizing. lol 20,000 doesn't sound too bad to me.

I mean you can only buy 3 elites with 10,000. That's not enough space.

Oh well.. it's just a minor suggestion because sometimes when you are on a very good team and you keep winning and your faction is full, you don't want to leave the team, and yet you are not getting faction points. Increasing the Cap may reduce the problem a bit. I've this happened to me sooooooooooo many times. I had to leave the team only because my faction pool is full.

darkdragon99 · Dec 14, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

well if your leaving your team just cause you have max faction you should probly find a game you enjoy playing for playing and stop bitching that i can't have this i can't have that

Loviatar · Dec 14, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

You are assuming alot to think that chapter 2 will be level 20 specific content only, similar to the sorrow's furnace expansion. You are assuming even more that the only way to aquire those skills will only occur through the mission system.

.

the level 20 content is not an assumption it is stated official fact.

Quote:

from GW

Guild Wars, in contrast, is based around your skill as a player. Our maximum level is twenty and you hit that very quickly, after about 20-30 hours of play. ,We call that 'The Point of Ascension'. Almost all of the content in the game and in the future Chapters is only available to Ascended characters, which means we don't have to worry about providing different levels of content. All the good stuff will be available to everyone. It's not our intent to force people onto the levelling up treadmill, so the level cap in Guild Wars is almost meaningless.

jibikao · Dec 14, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

well if your leaving your team just cause you have max faction you should probly find a game you enjoy playing for playing and stop bitching that i can't have this i can't have that

I SAID it's a MINOR suggestion. You are the one bitches here, not me. I am just contributing my ideas and describing what happened to me in the game.

If the cap is bigger, people can STILL enjoy faction points and PvP. I just don't see why 10,000 is the cap and not 20,000 or 50,000?

Oh and thanks for your contribution to this thread "GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND STOP BITCHING". That's brilliant.

darkdragon99 · Dec 14, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

what i said basicly is if faction is the only reason you play you should find a game you enjoy playing for playing you know the gameplay is what should be the center point but it's always the rank or this needs uncapped or this needs nerfed

you know if you don't enjoy just playing the game without worring about these things you should find something less stressful to do

Loviatar · Dec 14, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

I've this happened to me sooooooooooo many times. I had to leave the team only because my faction pool is full.

not a flame just a clarification please.

are you saying you left because you were not gaining more faction or were you saying that is the excuse the people who have quit on you leaving the team a person short used?

jibikao · Dec 14, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

what i said basicly is if faction is the only reason you play you should find a game you enjoy playing for playing you know the gameplay is what should be the center point but it's always the rank or this needs uncapped or this needs nerfed

you know if you don't enjoy just playing the game without worring about these things you should find something less stressful to do

Dude, which part of "Minor" suggestion you DO NOT understand?

The game is designed to GIVE faction points to PvP characters so they can unlock things. Faction Point IS part of the game. 10,000 CAP seems small because when you are on a very good team, you keep winning but if your faction pool is full, you can't use them until you lose or leave the team. I find it mildly annoying because I don't see the difference between 10,000 cap and 20,000 cap. It's a FREAKING suggestion. It's not BITCHING as you claimed.

PS: You can't buy a lot of things with 10,000. 3 elites max. If you want to buy runes or items, 10,000 is really not that big of a CAP.

And I do enjoy the game, for YOUR information.

jibikao · Dec 14, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

not a flame just a clarification please.

are you saying you left because you were not gaining more faction or were you saying that is the excuse the people who have quit on you leaving the team a person short used?

You are reading too much.

darkdragon99 · Dec 14, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Dude, which part of "Minor" suggestion you DO NOT understand?

The game is designed to GIVE faction points to PvP characters so they can unlock things. Faction Point IS part of the game. 10,000 CAP seems small because when you are on a very good team, you keep winning but if your faction pool is full, you can't use them until you lose or leave the team. I find it mildly annoying because I don't see the difference between 10,000 cap and 20,000 cap. It's a FREAKING suggestion. It's not BITCHING as you claimed.

And I do enjoy the game, for YOUR information.

the game wasn't designed to give faction point.

faction points were placed into the game it used to be if you wanted to unlock anything for pvp you had to do it in pve by geting the skills or runes or items.

how can 10,000 be low it's more than i've ever used but than again i unlocked mos of my stuff the old fashioned way.

i think ppl have forgotten these little facts.

Loviatar · Dec 14, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

You are reading too much.

actually i do read a lot.

what i simply wanted to know was if you were complaining about people leaving your group high and dry or if you were the one leaving.

just curious.

peace and goodwill

Chev of Hardass · Dec 14, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I'm a genious, I have the answer!!!!

Put a Preist of Balthazar in ALL the PvP areas, specifically the Guild Halls.

Ok, that is an easy suggestion.

Next:

Then put a preist in The HoH, only accessible to the winning team. That way if you are on a hot streak you can spend spend spend.

Epinephrine · Dec 14, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I'm a genious, I have the answer!!!!

Put a Preist of Balthazar in ALL the PvP areas, specifically the Guild Halls.

Ok, that is an easy suggestion.

Next:

Then put a preist in The HoH, only accessible to the winning team. That way if you are on a hot streak you can spend spend spend.

Works for me. Better yet, eliminate the priest altogether, have it as part of your skills drop-down sheet (or, since runes/items are also on there, a new drop-down sheet, but like skills/inventory it is accessible anywhere). Simply buy them on the fly. It doesn't matter in instances anyway, since you can't switch skill sets. Spend faction wherever you are, anytime at all.

Phades · Dec 14, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the level 20 content is not an assumption it is stated official fact.

Almost all of the content in ch1 is not based around ascended characters. Dragon's lair to the end of the game is based around level 20 characters. 7 missions, eliete skill capturing, and sorrows furnace does not make the majority of the game. There is alot more content before that point in the game. The game balance is based around level 20 though. Since it is the cap, it is also easy to rate game hours per level as well making level 20 biased. The "end game" does not even encompass a majority of the game world map. I am wondering where you dug up that dusty quote as it would seem to be something published prior to the initial game release.

There is another problem with your level 20 only theory. It is the instance where any character starts over that is not a ch1 character. You are suggesting that a level 1 assasin face off againt level 20 characters (or higher) with no skills or armor. As amusing as of the thought of that is, it would be akin to watching low level henchmen die to the titans over and over again. That is not going to happen though.

I am still wondering though about how optional the chapters actually are. I do not recall if anyone stated that you can skip chapter 1. I can only recall references to skipping later chapters though. Alot of the information is too vauge really, so i imagine the precedent will be set when chapter 2 is released. The only real option i can see them taking without changing some elements of chapter one is making the two completely seperate, forcing everyone to remake into the new chapter. Because, if the new chapter does have new classes and people will make new characters, then there will need to be low level areas for those individuals to exist within. If they are counting on the players going back and re-doing ch1 with these new characters, then it opens the possibility for the existing high end exp count level 20 characters to very rapidly soak up all the skills with a chapter 2 enabled account without stepping out into the chapter 2 content. There is the location based eliete skills issue, but like i did mention before that faction can be a faster approach for things like elietes. Under this style they could aslo teir the skills for chapter 1 progression and chapter 2 progression keeping the existing game model, but spreading out the skills more between the two. This would also imply a sizeable skill set increase for all the existing classes as well, or a ch1 nerf in current skill distribution.

Banebow · Dec 14, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

You are suggesting that a level 1 assasin face off againt level 20 characters (or higher) with no skills or armor.

. . .No he isn't. Were did you get the idea that an assassin would not start in pre-searing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

It doesn't take much for a level 20 character to run through the ascalon, shiverpeak and kryta missions solo. It takes even less for an experienced team of level 20 characters to perform the same feat. You are assuming alot to think that chapter 2 will be level 20 specific content only, similar to the sorrow's furnace expansion. You are assuming even more that the only way to aquire those skills will only occur through the mission system.

Missions advance your character across the world. Thunderhead keep takes you to ember light camp. In fact, it is the only way to get there. So yes, I think that missions will need to be completed for a player to get all the skills. That team of level 20's you mentioned also happen to know the terrain, the spawns, what the enemies will do, and what there patrol routes are. Not only will no one have that knowledge, but the areas are not likely to be that low-leveled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Sure, if you never lose and no one ever drops and the faction rewards increase exponentially.

Then play tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Right, you believe in the tooth fairy too i suppose. Any character that loaded with exp wasnt doing so just because watching the numbers increase is fun. There was a time when the character existed when everything might have been new and fun, but after amassing the quantities we are both refering to is well beyond that point multiplied by whatever factor you deem is appropriate. Exp gained through pve doesn't take effort, it merely takes time. In all of pvp there are no players that use exactly the same builds in the same way and waiting in the exact same positions every single time. There is the very real possibility that you did not bring the right skill to win or they had a build that countered your team's build well. PvE is more of a given situation as the AI is very predictable. In both cases you tend to bring the best possible build to the table, but that ideal build does not work in every situation. This happens more frequently in pvp than pve. I say that it is abusable in either instance, because the trainers are available to the pvp characters in the pvp areas, just like the pve trainers are easily accessable to an experienced pve player.

I hate to burst your bubble here, but faction does not exactly take skill to get either. I would have thought you knew about all the people who use the same builds the same way in PvP, but I guess you have never seen an iway group. As to the amount I am refering to, I don't care if it is 3 skill points or 300. Either one appears to be the same to you, so does the actual number matter? All I see is someone who is angry that PvE characters have something that his PvP character does not, the ability to build up a store of skill points. Lets ignore the fact that you are handed the skill trainers, while a PvE character will have to go find them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Because, if the new chapter does have new classes and people will make new characters, then there will need to be low level areas for those individuals to exist within.

That area is called pre-searing.

Loviatar · Dec 14, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

I am wondering where you dug up that dusty quote as it would seem to be something published prior to the initial game release.

i will have to try to find that (not today)

Quote:

There is another problem with your level 20 only theory. It is the instance where any character starts over that is not a ch1 character. You are suggesting that a level 1 assasin face off againt level 20 characters (or higher) with no skills or armor. As amusing as of the thought of that is, it would be akin to watching low level henchmen die to the titans over and over again. That is not going to happen though.

possibly run them through a Assassin skill quested chapter 1?

Quote:

I am still wondering though about how optional the chapters actually are. I do not recall if anyone stated that you can skip chapter 1. I can only recall references to skipping later chapters though. Alot of the information is too vauge really, so i imagine the precedent will be set when chapter 2 is released. .

very good point because every official statement i have seen refers to the new chapters saying all NEW chapters are optional.

sure gives a good marketing promotion chance though.

BUY CHAPTER 2 GET CHAPTER 1 AT:

HALF PRICE
or
75% OFF
or
FREE

2 GAMES FOR THE PRICE OF ONE

jibikao · Dec 14, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Works for me. Better yet, eliminate the priest altogether, have it as part of your skills drop-down sheet (or, since runes/items are also on there, a new drop-down sheet, but like skills/inventory it is accessible anywhere). Simply buy them on the fly. It doesn't matter in instances anyway, since you can't switch skill sets. Spend faction wherever you are, anytime at all.

Yup, I like this idea! I mean you can't change skills during matches anyway but you can at least use up the faction points before it reaches that small 10,000 cap.